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Post by QuietCop on Nov 5, 2008 13:19:57 GMT -5
Yes, I can see how the reasonable discussions have gone. ha ha I knew he couldn't do it. Typical Liberal. Says one thing, does another.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Nov 5, 2008 13:33:11 GMT -5
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Post by cowboy on Nov 5, 2008 13:37:04 GMT -5
I don't think he will do anything stupid--if Bush, etc negotiate a 2011 date, he'll stick to it. Now the tax break for people making under 250,000, or 200,000---150,000, whatever; that's another matter.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Nov 5, 2008 13:38:49 GMT -5
I don't think he will do anything stupid--if Bush, etc negotiate a 2011 date, he'll stick to it. Now the tax break for people making under 250,000, or 200,000---150,000, whatever; that's another matter. So then he'll already be upsetting half of his constituents......assuming they all still believe that he'll be "bringing home the troops" from this "unjust war."
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Post by Loucks on Nov 5, 2008 14:06:01 GMT -5
This is an important part of the article in my opinion...
"We are negotiating right now with the U.S. for a timeline of 2011 for U.S. forces to withdraw from the country ... Our position has become much closer to what Senator Obama during his election campaign called for," Zebari said.
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Post by knaveljm on Nov 5, 2008 15:08:09 GMT -5
The hate I keep reading and seeing from Christians right now is just sickening! Not on this board, per se, but elsewhere ... I can't believe it. Don't be so hard on Rub. A long quote from a Times (of London) column in Obama and religion: Conservative commentator Albert Mohler . . . admits to disappointment on one level but adds: 'Every American should be moved by the sight of young African-Americans who -- for the first time -- now believe that they have a purchase in American democracy. Old men and old women, grandsons and granddaughters of slaves and slaveholders, will look to an African-American as President. Regardless of politics, could anyone remain unmoved by the sight of Jesse Jackson crying alone amidst the crowd in Chicago? This dimension of Election Day transcends politics and touches the heart of the American people.' He goes on: 'At the same time, we must be honest and recognize that the political maps are being redrawn before our eyes. Will the Republican Party decide that conservative Christians are just too troublesome for the party and see the pro-life movement as a liability? There is the real danger that the Republicans, stung by this defeat, will adopt a libertarian approach to divisive moral issues and show conservative Christians the door. 'Others will declare these struggles over, arguing that the election of Sen. Obama means that Americans in general -- and many younger Evangelicals in particular -- are ready to "move on" to other issues. This is no time for surrender or the abandonment of our core principles. We face a much harder struggle ahead, but we have no right to abandon the struggle.' [emphasis added] And interestingly, he raises the concept of duty: 'Evangelical Christians face another challenge with the election of Sen Obama, and a failure to rise to this challenge will bring disrepute upon the Gospel, as well as upon ourselves. There must be absolutely no denial of the legitimacy of President-Elect Obama's election and no failure to accord this new President the respect and honour due to anyone elected to that high office. Failure in this responsibility is disobedience to a clear biblical command.' [emphasis added] First -- I'm not touched by anything Jesse Jackson does. Most everything he does is simply for show. Second, the idea that we should be moved simply because an African-American was elected president is insane. I'm moved by the issues and policies, not by the color of a man's skin. Third, I voted for John McCain and I am a Christian. Despite that, Obama will get the respect from me that the office of the president deserves as someone in authority over me. However, the Bible also says that if an authority asks you to do something that is in direct conflict with the Word of God, then the Bible takes precedence. I will not support Obama in his support of abortion because I believe that is in direct conflict with what the Bible says. I will not support him in anything else he does in direct conflict of the Bible. But I will support him and respect his authority in anything else.
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Post by Loucks on Nov 5, 2008 15:11:14 GMT -5
My Three Hopes for Obama by Joel Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Hunter)
Dear Mr. President,
You have my active and prayerful support. In addition, I am hoping you will:
1. Love your family first. Before taking care of the country, please be an example to us all by being devoted to your family. 2. Keep Jesus in mind as you shift our sense of public morality, as you set the tone for public discourse, as you choose the various leaders to carry out the vision, and as you prioritize the issues that will have the most significant benefit to the widest possible sector of humanity. 3. Spend the next four years winning the country with the same fervor it took to win the election. It might be advisable to continue a variation of the organization it took to inform and recruit the general population’s participation to win the election. We want to be a part of building a better future. Help us build coalitions. Challenge us to serve and make a way for us to participate in fulfilling the vision you have set before us.
We are standing with you.
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Post by foresterfan on Nov 5, 2008 15:14:52 GMT -5
To say that an African-American was "simply" elected is quite the understatement. When put into the context of American history, it is a historical achievement, and one that I also found moving. I guess I'm insane.
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Post by knaveljm on Nov 5, 2008 15:26:01 GMT -5
OK -- I understand the achievement that it is in this country for an African American to be voted president. But I don't believe anyone should have voted for Obama simply because he was African American, nor do I believe anyone should have voted for McCain based on the fact that he is white. I think people should have voted based on which candidate closer aligned to their beliefs. It is obvious to me that people voted for Obama because he stood for ideas/policies that more closely aligned with the majority of people than McCain's did. For that, he is to be credited and applauded. For being African American, I don't see why I should be moved by that?
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Post by cowboy on Nov 5, 2008 15:37:31 GMT -5
To say that an African-American was "simply" elected is quite the understatement. When put into the context of American history, it is a historical achievement, and one that I also found moving. I guess I'm insane. Obama's election gives hope to those who are black and want "the american dream," by removing the excuse that "the man" is keeping the african american down. I think it's great that Obama's president because he is black. I did not vote for him because he's a leftist-socialist-elitist who yadda yadda yadda, but at least he's black and we've now turned a corner in race relations. and I will comment about Louck's post: I"ve lived in both Alabama and Texas and did not see any more racism than I've seen in Indiana. The most segregation you will see is here, not the south. And for you political historians, the racists and KKK members in the south in the bad Jim Crow days, were mostly democrats. Not that any of this is particularly new or even relevant, but we don't have to point a finger at anything that is "other" to define racism. It is us: our churches, neighborhoods, towns, colleges, etc.
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Post by Loucks on Nov 5, 2008 15:37:09 GMT -5
Here's Greg Boyd's take on it...
All Politics Aside — Today is a Good Day!
November 5th, 2008
Today is a good day.
I don’t care if you’re a Democrat, Republican, Socialist, Libertarian, Communist, Anarchist or even a Christarchist who feels called to abstain from the whole political process. I couldn’t care less. The fact that Americans have elected a black man to be their president makes today a very good day!
When you reflect on the centuries of bondage and abuse blacks endured as slaves who were bought and sold like cattle and often treated worse…
when you remember that blacks were once regarded for legal purposes as just over half-human…
when you consider the extraordinary illegal and immoral ways white politicians changed all the rules to keep blacks out of power following the civil war…
when you recall the dehumanizing injustice of the Jim Crow south, the horrors of the KKK, the heroic struggles for civil rights, the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. as well as the on-going systemic racism that continues to marginalize and oppress blacks…
you can’t help but celebrate the day Americans elected a black man to lead them.
All politics aside,
today is a very good day!
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Post by knaveljm on Nov 5, 2008 15:44:36 GMT -5
Have we turned a corner? Did the KKK dissolve last night? Did the centuries of bondage and abuse to African Americans not happen because he was elected? Did MLK Jr. not get assassinated because Obama became president last night? Did those who are racist change overnight because Obama was elected president? I haven't seen anything change because Obama won the presidency last night.
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Post by cowboy on Nov 5, 2008 15:46:35 GMT -5
Have we turned a corner? Did the KKK dissolve last night? Did the centuries of bondage and abuse to African Americans not happen because he was elected? Did MLK Jr. not get assassinated because Obama became president last night? I haven't seen anything change because Obama won the presidency last night. give it a week or maybe a month (see my previous post) the election is not the cause of change, it's the effect of change
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Post by knaveljm on Nov 5, 2008 15:48:45 GMT -5
If you ask me, there are going to be some factions of the KKK or other racist groups that become more passionate in their beliefs now that an African American is president. I don't think anything's changed in race relations simply because Obama was elected president. If anything, it only confirms what most of us already knew -- Racism is not as prevalent in America as some think.
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Post by Loucks on Nov 5, 2008 15:50:51 GMT -5
Certainly not, Jason. But I think this election gives those long fought battles a bit more legitimacy and empowerment. Barack Obama is, in a sense, a realization of MLK's dream for America.
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