|
Post by Darth Tater on May 21, 2008 14:06:37 GMT -5
Where are you going to put some 'midlevel' players at in the cubs lineup anyways? Most the spots were filled with big talent already and other spots were open for their high level prospects. There's only a couple 3B I'd take over ARam and most of them earn more money than him already or will when they reach that first big contract.
ARam could have made lots more money on the open market but signed the 'hometown discount' in Chicago.
|
|
|
Post by maxpower on May 21, 2008 16:02:30 GMT -5
Let's compare A-Ram's 2007 season to the other third basemen in baseball.... He ranked sixth in VORP amongst all third basemen and was the second highest paid at 15 million (behind only ARod). This year he has improved to third, behind David Wright and Chipper Jones, so this stat may pan out for him. This stat will probably change when Alex Rodriguez returns. www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=309637Lets take a look at the Cubs lineup in 2007 and see where they could have used some help in their VORP across the board: The Cubs had four position in 2007 that were at 20 or below in the VORP rankings (C, SS, RF, CF www.anothercubsblog.net/2007/12/17/2007-vorp/ ). The outfield situation has been changed with the signing of Fukedome, so that may answer Tater's question of where they could put some other players. Overall, I still believe the Cubs may have overpaid for A-Ram - even the most die-hard Cub fans will admit that he has problems in clutch situations and whenever Derek Lee is out of the lineup. Anyway, hopefully this will turn what started as a solid baseball discussion back into one.....
|
|
|
Post by cowboy on May 21, 2008 19:07:16 GMT -5
everyone is entitled to a championship every hundred years or so
|
|
|
Post by Darth Tater on May 21, 2008 21:31:58 GMT -5
C - Soto: .315 avg, 9 HR, 33 RBI, .418 OB% SS - Theriot: .325 avg., .401 OB%, 9 SB RF - Fukudome: .311 avg., .412 OB%,
That leaves CF which Pie apparently couldn't produce, but the Cubs weren't going to sign anybody until Pie struggled so much in April.
So why let ARam go? He's protection in the lineup for Lee and they didn't need to fill holes elsewhere in the lineup (except CF right now, but maybe Edmonds is the answer?) I like ARam at $15 million per year for a guy who always hits .290-.300 with 30 HR, 100 RBIs
|
|
|
Post by huisrealgood on May 21, 2008 21:48:40 GMT -5
There is no reasoning with maxy Tater... he'll argue with a brick wall.
|
|
|
Post by maxpower on May 22, 2008 8:09:10 GMT -5
Tater - solid.
Those guys are producing so far this year, it will be fun to check back at the end of the year and see where they stand. I just wanted to bring up the fact that the money might have been used better on the pitching staff with a front line starter that could step up in the playoffs, but it's not like those guys are very easy to find. The Cubs definitely have the money, so the 15 mil might have been a good investment.
I have enjoyed the debate. I always do with someone that actually backs their statements up with facts, and doesn't run and hide when someone brings up an oposing view.
|
|
|
Post by huisrealgood on May 22, 2008 12:49:23 GMT -5
The Cubs definitely have the money, so the 15 mil might have been a good investment. I just fell out of my chair. I have enjoyed the debate. I always do with someone that actually backs their statements up with facts, and doesn't run and hide when someone brings up an oposing view. And who would that be? I gave you solid facts on Ramirez when you were vague about how they could "better spend their money" when you specified anyone on this board could've refuted your argument. Tater just beat me to it.
|
|
|
Post by blue2blue on May 22, 2008 15:43:07 GMT -5
You think Bethel and Huntington have a running feud? It's nothing compared to the Cubs & Cardinal fans. Living in Arkansas, which is rampant Cardinal country, Cubs are just about as hated as Islamic terrorists. This is kind of funny, and tells you a Cardinal's perspective of the Cubs' fans mindset: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zEHF_ajIw (Warning: the print on the screen does contain offensive words, sorry-wish they could be funny without being obscene)
|
|
|
Post by huisrealgood on May 23, 2008 19:08:02 GMT -5
HF, I'm watching the Cubs and the Buccos tonight, and I think my little league team fielded better than these guys. 2 errors in 5 innings so far, but my favorite was here in the 5th:
With runners on 1st and 2nd Ryan Theriot lays down a bunt. Pirates 1B Adam LaRoche fields the ball, looks at 3rd, looks at 2nd, turns to throw to first and by that time Theriot's on first base! Whoops!
HF you know I love you, but your team is a minor league ballclub. McLouth, Nady, Bay and Snell are nice pieces that I would love to have on my team (at least McLouth & Snell), but the rest of that team? Ugh.
|
|
|
Post by huntington fan on May 23, 2008 20:21:10 GMT -5
Freddy Sanchez won the batting title in 2006 and was over .300 last year. Your second baseman is better? Gorzelanny won 14 games last year. Ryan Doumit (out with an injury) is hitting .350. There are a few who can play. LaRoche is actually a decent fielder (one play does not a season make), but he's a terrible early season hitter and has been a real liability.
On the rest of it, yep, they're pretty bad, which is why it's amazing that their record isn't worse than it is, considering the low budget and the idiocy of Dave Littlefield. Matt Morris? Whew...
As I posted at the very beginning of the season, the Pirates are supposed to do poorly, and the Cubs are supposed to be good. Too bad the Cubs aren't that good against anyone but the Pirates. They won't be playing the Pirates in the playoffs, and then they'll get smoked. Meanwhile, I can remember 1960, 1971, and 1979. Those were all Pirates World Series championship years. I can't seem to remember the Cubs winning any of those things...in fact, even in your lifetime the Pirates have been in the playoffs more than the Cubs, I think. I just have to hope that some day they will return to respectability. At least I won't be around to make excuses for them not winning the World Series for 100 years...
|
|
|
Post by huntington fan on May 23, 2008 20:22:43 GMT -5
too bad the Cubs are using up all their hits in this game...
|
|
|
Post by huisrealgood on May 23, 2008 20:50:04 GMT -5
too bad the Cubs are using up all their hits in this game... Just like the 9 other games they've beaten the Pirates in this year?
|
|
|
Post by huisrealgood on May 23, 2008 21:01:28 GMT -5
Freddy Sanchez won the batting title in 2006 and was over .300 last year. Your second baseman is better? Gorzelanny won 14 games last year. Ryan Doumit (out with an injury) is hitting .350. There are a few who can play. LaRoche is actually a decent fielder (one play does not a season make), but he's a terrible early season hitter and has been a real liability. On the rest of it, yep, they're pretty bad, which is why it's amazing that their record isn't worse than it is, considering the low budget and the idiocy of Dave Littlefield. Matt Morris? Whew... As I posted at the very beginning of the season, the Pirates are supposed to do poorly, and the Cubs are supposed to be good. Too bad the Cubs aren't that good against anyone but the Pirates. They won't be playing the Pirates in the playoffs, and then they'll get smoked. Meanwhile, I can remember 1960, 1971, and 1979. Those were all Pirates World Series championship years. I can't seem to remember the Cubs winning any of those things...in fact, even in your lifetime the Pirates have been in the playoffs more than the Cubs, I think. I just have to hope that some day they will return to respectability. At least I won't be around to make excuses for them not winning the World Series for 100 years... I'm not picking a fight here HF... besides I've only endured 23 years without a title (22 technically since this one isn't over) and only about 17 that I remember. Playoffs? Your memory is betraying you. The Pirates have been in the playoffs 3 times in my lifetime ('90, '91, '92) and the Cubs have been 4 times ('89, '98, '03, '07). As for the players you've mentioned... Sanchez is good. I like Mark DeRosa, but that's more partiality than objectivity. As for Gorzelanny? He's average at best, but maybe I've watched the Cubbies knock him around too much. I wouldn't mind seeing the Pirates succeed. I like them a lot more than the Cards, Reds, Astros, Brewers, Giants, Braves, Yankees, etc, etc, etc.
|
|
|
Post by huntington fan on May 24, 2008 7:57:58 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, I should have added Capps, Marte, and Grabow, all better relievers than anyone the Cubs have in the pen.
I still think you should remember two things: 1) it's May; 2) the Cubs don't have the starting pitching they need to be a serious contender.
As for the Pirates, it's going to take years to rebuild the minor league system after the Littlebrains era damaged it so badly, so it's likely they'll be trading some guys for prospects.
By the way, I saw this morning that the umpires in that game blew another home run call on Bay's shot, not that it affected the game's outcome. It's been a bad week for the men in blue.
|
|
|
Post by huisrealgood on May 25, 2008 1:55:49 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, I should have added Capps, Marte, and Grabow, all better relievers than anyone the Cubs have in the pen. Shenanigans! Carlos Marmol is better than all three of those guys combined. I still think you should remember two things: 1) it's May; 2) the Cubs don't have the starting pitching they need to be a serious contender. We'll see. As for the Pirates, it's going to take years to rebuild the minor league system after the Littlebrains era damaged it so badly, so it's likely they'll be trading some guys for prospects. We'll take McLouth and some of those lefties off your hands! By the way, I saw this morning that the umpires in that game blew another home run call on Bay's shot, not that it affected the game's outcome. It's been a bad week for the men in blue. Indeed it has been.
|
|