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Post by huisrealgood on Jan 9, 2012 22:52:14 GMT -5
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Post by Kyle Feller on Jan 10, 2012 10:24:31 GMT -5
Good stuff. EsPN had a commentary from "Player X" on his recruiting trip to a certain school (no names/schools listed).
Was pretty damning.
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Post by huisrealgood on Jan 10, 2012 11:34:01 GMT -5
Yep. It's sad that this is so commonplace in big-time college sports today.
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Post by rubalamp on Jan 10, 2012 11:56:40 GMT -5
I found their attitudes about championship/ncaa success, mid-major interesting, but somewhat inconsistent with what happens...
It makes it seem like a Butler would get a few more top 100 players....
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Post by huisrealgood on Jan 10, 2012 17:37:56 GMT -5
I found their attitudes about championship/ncaa success, mid-major interesting, but somewhat inconsistent with what happens... It makes it seem like a Butler would get a few more top 100 players.... Kind of a misleading question, because it only gives 2 options when there are really 3 options. The two options given were... A) A mid-major with lots of tourney success like Butler B) A school in a big-time conference with little tourney success They left out... C) A school in a big-time conference with lots of tourney success And most if not all top 100 recruits pick C. |
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Post by rubalamp on Jan 10, 2012 18:28:51 GMT -5
Yes, I saw that as well, but if we are going to be honest, over the past what 6 years...have their been many more teams that have had the success Butler has? I mean, if you take the UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, IU, Kansas, Ohio St, Florida, UConn as the ones that always could fit in that category, how many others would there be? maybe you could argue another 10 teams (Michigan State, Arizona, you can name a few others), but what about the players that choose outside of this list...I think the only Butler top 100 recruit netted over the past two years was the kid MO in the 2013 class (kellen committed before his ranking moved up that high).
I guess it still seems to make you think that there would be a couple more choosing Butler or Gonzaga at least, as the two mid-majors that have been consistently decent in the tourney for about a decade. Not sure many others can be considered George Mason and VCU pretty much had their one big run.
It makes me think of my limited work with admissions...High school seniors are pretty inconsistent with their decision making processes. It just seems to show up on the survey a bit. Which is entirely normal, when you consider what know Butler ISN'T giving recruits and we know the other schools (likely) are.
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Post by huisrealgood on Jan 10, 2012 19:35:48 GMT -5
Not all schools can turn tournament success into recruiting success right away, even some of the bigger name schools (Illinois, Georgia Tech, etc). Part of it has to do with the fact that recruiting starts at a much younger age these days, so something you did even two years ago may not translate into top 100 players flocking to your programs because you don't have the relationship built up that other programs have since they were young, and to be honest, you still don't have the name recognition that a Kentucky or a Kansas has and you never will.
I think Gonzaga is a good measuring stick for Butler. A mid-major that has had sustained Tourney success (albeit never a Final Four like Butler has done twice now). Gonzaga went to their first Sweet 16 in 1999 and matched that feat the next 2 years (2000 & '01). Granted Rivals doesn't have recruit rankings dating back before 2002, but according to their database, the first top 100 recruit didn't arrive in Spokane until 2006, a whole 7 years after that initial Tourney success. But after that, they went on quite the recruiting roll including a blockbuster 2007 class that boasted 1 5-star & 2 4-stars.
Gary Bell (#75, 2011)
Mangisto Arop (#88, 2009)
Austin Daye (#25, 2007)
Steven Gray (#64, 2007)
Robert Sacre (#102, 2007) still ranked as a 4-star in the database
Matt Bouldin (#45, 2006)
That said, they've still only had 6 top 100 recruits over the past 10 years. It's a great option just like Butler, but still a mid-major. That you'll never be able to shake unless some unforeseen crazy conference shake-up ensues in the next decade or two.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Jan 11, 2012 13:04:37 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Matt Howard was a Top 100 guy that turned down offers from Purdue, Indiana, Etc.
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Post by rubalamp on Jan 11, 2012 15:26:47 GMT -5
I know it is always a game of what if...but...
Do you think the perception of mid majors would have changed if Butler had won one of those games? What if Butler won 2 in a row?
I mean making it there is pretty remarkable for those that already followed Butler, but is probably forgettable to many people who just knows they lost both years.
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Post by huisrealgood on Jan 11, 2012 16:24:42 GMT -5
Winning definitely would make a bigger impact. That said, Maryland won a title a decade ago and where are they? I think it just takes a long, long period of sustained success to really change perceptions.
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Post by rubalamp on Jan 11, 2012 19:10:08 GMT -5
But at least Maryland is in a major conference. The only possible small conference team I could think of was Nova, but I wasn't sure where they were when they won it all.
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