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Post by cuphan on Jun 9, 2008 21:09:36 GMT -5
Okay - First of all, I took the deep breath and exhaled slowly several days ago - in part, thanks to Robbie and L-Train. As for the two fouls, you say they should have been "against Bales and another against Ganger" - I think you mean that Bales and Ganger were fouled, not that fouls should have been called against them. Freudian slip? With Bales, I might agree - Long definitely made contact with him in the scramble for the ball. But I have often heard it said, by Bethel fans as well as others, that officials should not insert themselves into the game in the closing seconds. Instead, they should let the players decide the outcome. Well, you can't have it both ways - either there was a foul or there was not. Given the mishandling of the ball in that situation, I think it was a good no call - but I realize you will probably disagree with me on that. Now as for Ganger, there was no foul...period. I know because I have watched that part of the video 50 times if I've watched it once - even in a "frame by frame" mode. There was some incidental contact by Gortmaker when Ganger first got the ball, but his complete move toward attempting the shot, including the final dribble, the set up, the jump, and the shot - that whole sequence was completely contact free. Slow down the video and watch, and you'll see that I'm right. But my main contention is, the game is over, and the outcome is what it is. Bethel has won 3 National Championships - one of them was by 1 point (Siena Heights), and another was by 2 points (Oregon Tech), and even the Northwest Nazarene game went into OT, right? Is it possible that one or more calls in those games "cost (SHU, OIT, NNW) the game"? Well, yes...but no. The fact is, Bethel won all three of those games. And I don't think any reasonable person would argue that...so why is there so much reluctance in this instance to admit that, "Hey, we put up a great effort, but we finally lost one." The kind of rhetoric I have seen on here (again from some, not all, Pilot fans), along with the Media Guide description of the '99 game...well, that kind of rhetoric is very disappointing. Okay, I'm done.
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Post by foresterfan on Jun 9, 2008 21:42:35 GMT -5
It's ok CUfan. I, and probably many others (including some Pilot fans) know what you're saying. My fav part is when we get the "this guys was fouled" and "that guy was fouled" from some, and then the same people who say that act as if they don't care because "they have 3 others anyway". Well, to me, it would seem you do care, otherwise you wouldn't even bring it up. I've never seen the video, but I'm going to take CUfan's word based on the fact that he's seen slow motion replay of the event.
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Post by oldtimer on Jun 10, 2008 12:01:47 GMT -5
I have one question that I have been unable to track down. A year ago, Bethel fans were all excited about a player named Andy Hampton. What ever happened to Andy; I think he worked the Bethel camp last year. Did he get hurt and red shirt this year?
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Post by Kyle Feller on Jun 10, 2008 12:06:13 GMT -5
He was to transfer to Bethel from IUPUI. Hampton was married and was demanding a lot of support from Bethel including a free house for them to live in. It couldn't be worked out.
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Post by rubalamp on Jun 10, 2008 12:29:44 GMT -5
ha ha...Did he think Bethel was USC???
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Post by cuphan on Jun 10, 2008 13:02:45 GMT -5
Or that he was O. J. Mayo? ...sorry...
Anyway, wouldn't a free house go just a little bit over what NAIA schools are allowed to provide? In other words, that seems like a shameless attempt to get Bethel to blatantly violate the NAIA rules for recruiting athletes.
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Post by tubballfan on Jun 10, 2008 13:25:03 GMT -5
Don't some colleges have houses for married couples to live in? I know there are houses that Taylor students rent when they live off campus, maybe that's what he was meaning. Unless it was them giving him a house, ownership and all, I wouldn't think it would be that big of a problem as far as the NAIA is concerned, because it would be covering room and board, but that's just my opinion.
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Post by rubalamp on Jun 10, 2008 13:31:35 GMT -5
Huntington had some college houses...I think the problem is, those are basically 4-6 people that can live in those from a housing capacity standpoint. To give a house like that to one student (athlete) and his wife, it does give him something they wouldn't give other students. HU may provide an apartment in a similar fashion, but that is more common. I wonder if the fact that it would have been for him and his wife makes it much different?
Either way, it didn't happen...so I am not sure why I felt compelled to make a post at all...
I guess I am bored.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Jun 10, 2008 13:37:37 GMT -5
I'm with Rub......and I think that was the situation.
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Post by QuietCop on Jun 11, 2008 20:44:22 GMT -5
I think the Bethel Athletic Dept. should release a DVD with the National Championship games on it - for those of us not in the Mishawaka area -- they could do even do it as part of a fundraiser if need be. I'd certainly purchase one and am pretty certain plenty of other fans would too. I'm sure they could make it available through mail-order with the Bethel magazine and in the Bethel bookstore (much like the Chapel Band CD's) just a thought I can imagine a Sports Illistrated Special deal. One Championship DVD, One Championship Sweatshirt, and a Basketball signed by the Championship team. Unfortunately, all of the SI's will be 10 years old. ;D
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ach22
JV Stand-out
Posts: 301
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Post by ach22 on Jun 13, 2008 6:12:05 GMT -5
I think the Bethel Athletic Dept. should release a DVD with the National Championship games on it - for those of us not in the Mishawaka area -- they could do even do it as part of a fundraiser if need be. I'd certainly purchase one and am pretty certain plenty of other fans would too. I'm sure they could make it available through mail-order with the Bethel magazine and in the Bethel bookstore (much like the Chapel Band CD's) just a thought I can imagine a Sports Illistrated Special deal. One Championship DVD, One Championship Sweatshirt, and a Basketball signed by the Championship team. Unfortunately, all of the SI's will be 10 years old. ;D Sounds like a good deal to me... Maybe even better than the Special Huntington Edition of the Farmer's Almanac with the centerfold spread of Steve Platt - with the infamous sideline scowl stance, one free booster gift card and a t-shirt that says, "Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and NAIA championships" ;D
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Post by WesleyTheWildcat on Jun 13, 2008 9:43:33 GMT -5
Wow, big time exalt for ach22...
I don't usually get into the Bethel/HU nit-pick fighting but that last one made me laugh. Well done sir.
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Post by cowboy on Jun 13, 2008 13:53:20 GMT -5
Isn't this a championship thread?
Why are we talking about HU?
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Post by cowboy on Jun 13, 2008 13:54:26 GMT -5
and CUFan--if the refs are letting them play, why'd they blow the whistle on Ganger?
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Post by cuphan on Jun 13, 2008 16:16:31 GMT -5
and CUFan--if the refs are letting them play, why'd they blow the whistle on Ganger? Well, cowboy - I gotta admit it took you long enough to come up with that red herring. The answer is simple: even in this postmodern world, where we could talk all afternoon about what constitutes a foul (i.e., "contact by which an advantage is gained" - whatever that is interpreted to mean, by various officials), the sideline is still the sideline - step on it, and you're out of bounds. It's just that simple - unless you're trying to suggest that in the last seconds of a national championship game, players stepping on the boundary lines of the court should be ignored, so that "the players can determine the outcome of the game." Now I really don't want to discuss this anymore, because I've talked all around it - go back and check my history on here. The game is over; final score, CU 113 BC 109 (OT). That basic kind of fact seemed good enough for you in 95, 97, and 98. So why not in 99?
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