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Post by clinttjohnson on Sept 17, 2008 15:37:06 GMT -5
They just get totally consumed by running the same offense and defense.
Why won't Coach Patterson pull a shocker and just run and gun for a Grace game?
I think that M.C.C. coaches should be like chefs. Sometimes beef and noodles need a little kick, a little zest to them.
Try a "sauteed" version of basketball.
Wouldn't it be wacky if we all prepared for "Patterson ball", but every time he had something new and creative?
I would keep people guessing if I were a coach. Make a team at nationals go "WHOA, WE'VE SEEN THIS TEAM RUN LITERALLY OVER 30 DIFFERENT STYLES THIS YEAR... THEY WOULDN'T KNOW HOW TO PREPARE".
But that said, Patterson's system rocks... it's just sometimes plain yogurt needs a blueberry twist!
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Post by foresterpride on Sept 17, 2008 16:06:10 GMT -5
I always thought that about HS basketball. I've heard my grandparents talk about all the different styles that little schools used to compete with bigger one. Like stalling, Milan's 4 corners, run-n-gun, then the old stand by with strong farm boys, just rough them up. But you don't see gimmicks anymore in this state. I think that was when we saw these small school start complaining and the class-basketball campaigning start.
As for the MCC, I thought the Elder Platt's significant use of the 3-pt shot was a bit of a change, but the 3-pt driven offense seems common place now.
I would love to see a run-n-gun team or gimmick team, at any level.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Sept 17, 2008 18:27:36 GMT -5
Westview ran gimmicks....that's why under the real state tournament, they had a great shot of being a Final Four team.
After all, Zach Randolph and Marion barely beat them in the Hall of Fame Classic.
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Post by clinttjohnson on Sept 18, 2008 1:03:37 GMT -5
And if I remember correctly, Zach cherry-picked (offense only) most of that game!
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Post by cowboy on Sept 18, 2008 7:08:47 GMT -5
one reason colleges don't change is that coaches recruit players for their system; in HS, you have to play with what you have, so the coach has to adapt to the players and be creative
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Post by knaveljm on Sept 18, 2008 7:52:46 GMT -5
And besides that, you don't see big time college coaches or NBA coaches changing systems for one game or changing multiple times throughout the year. Coaches have a limited number of players and they don't necessarily have the ability to play numerous different styles. You have play to your own team's strengths and not worry so much about what the other team struggles with if your team isn't capable of doing it.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Sept 18, 2008 8:56:17 GMT -5
That Marion team had the following:
Zach Randolph - 6'9 Michigan State/New York Knicks Matt Backs - 6'5 Elon University Matt Cates - 6'9 Ball State University Deuce Miller - 6'4 (2nd Best Sophomore in state behind Sean May)
Westviews biggest player I believe was 6'3 Jeff Nelson? Class Basketball robbed Westview High School of a truly tremendous opportunity.
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Engle
Intramural All-Star
Posts: 84
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Post by Engle on Sept 18, 2008 12:12:16 GMT -5
I know this thread isn't about Westview really, but Feller, what gimmicks did they run? I was at 95% of the games those years and don't recall gimmick offense? Against Marion they ran more sets than usual to create better looks.
I understand those teams were talanted and could compete against very good teams, but they didn't get robbed of anything. Those players were idolized and treated like superstars and got the treatment of royalty. 10 years later they are legends and who every kid dreams of being.
They might of done well in one class, but in those years they barely won sectional and had several come from behind wins against 2A teams. They did well against Marion because they were cocky and didn't care and Pike because it was a game that meant nothing to them.
Feller, I am not really for or against Class, but just needed get some basketball talk started.
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Post by WesleyTheWildcat on Sept 18, 2008 13:20:47 GMT -5
That Marion team has to go down as one of the best high school teams in recent memory as far as the state of Indiana is concerned.
It was actually Kevin Cates not Matt Cates and I know you were just mentioning the guys with height to make your point about Westview but they had guys like Issac McClung who was being recruited by Michigan State as a freshman and seniors like Reggie Nevels (Army Football/Basebal) who was the point guard and state high jump record holder and Todd Chin who was the shooting guard who went to play golf at IWU and is now on the Futures Tour I believe.
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Post by Kyle Feller on Sept 18, 2008 15:16:32 GMT -5
Engle,
That team did get robbed. The only people that will remember Westview in ten years will be people from that community. Had they made a state final four run in the real state tournament, they would've been remembered all over the state for years and years and years. Think Argos x10, especially in today's day and age.
When it came to gimmicks, I saw Westview as the team that ran more specific sets than any other team in the state HANDS DOWN. They would break down every single possession and essentially hit their opponent with something new every single time, if they needed to. During their last state championship run they didn't encounter much competition so they became a more generic team, but in general, their gimmick was sets, sets, and more sets.
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Post by maxpower on Sept 18, 2008 15:19:32 GMT -5
Feller - Isn't the NAIA kind of like class basketball for college?
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Post by Kyle Feller on Sept 18, 2008 15:39:32 GMT -5
I feel like we had this conversation while sitting on the Jersey Shore many years ago Max.
I wish that Bethel played a full D1 schedule......that would obviously yield more money to Bethel Basketball/College and help bring in better athletes. But it is what it is, and I think schools with budgets worth millions and millions of dollars are naturally going to be more effective than a program with only $100,000 budgeted for Basketball/Scholarships. There are more variables in college basketball than high school basketball. I think you see that, right?
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Post by maxpower on Sept 18, 2008 16:23:52 GMT -5
Ah...the good old days!
I think you know that, I, of all people, do understand that part of the argument. My point is on the caring factor. The state championships of the class basketball champions are important to the fans of that team, just as NAIA championships are important to the fans of the NAIA teams. I think you see that, right?
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Post by Kyle Feller on Sept 18, 2008 17:48:28 GMT -5
Agreed............half the people in South Bend have never even heard of Bethel College.
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Post by cowboy on Sept 18, 2008 19:04:05 GMT -5
but more than half the people in South Bend keep electing the same politicians that are running the city in the ground, so it's not surprising they don't know Bethel
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